553: Naveen Jain on the Human Ecosystem and Personalized Optimization of Your Gut Health

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Katie: Good day and welcome to “The Wellness Mama Podcast.” I’m Katie from wellnessmama.com and wellnesse.com, that’s wellness with an E on the top. And I’m right here at this time with my pal, Naveen, who’s an intensely curious entrepreneur who has been taking up some massive, audacious concepts to push humanity ahead. He’s the creator of the award-winning e book “Moonshots: Making a World of Abundance,” and his present moonshot adventures are Viome and Moon Categorical, which is an area firm. However as a serial entrepreneur, he’s additionally based InfoSpace, Intelius, and Expertise Sensible, amongst others.

And his present work is in Viome Life Sciences, which was based in 2016 with a mission of constructing sickness elective by predicting and stopping power illness via a deeper understanding of a person’s biology at a molecular stage. And it’s constructed on an AI-driven platform that analyzes the interplay between meals, our microbiome, and our human selves to develop precision suggestions to forestall and reverse power illness. He’s additionally the vice-chairman of the board at Singularity College, and on the board of XPRIZE Basis. He’s been the recipient of many issues together with Entrepreneur of the Yr, Most Artistic Particular person by Quick Firm, Prime 20 Entrepreneurs, and plenty of extra.

On this episode, we discuss concerning the human ecosystem and personalised optimization of your intestine well being and your general well being. We discuss concerning the motive the intestine impacts your entire physique. Why it’s not simply genetics from our dad and mom however really our ecosystem inside our intestine that controls our physique. Why 70% of the immune system is within the intestine. How microbiome stability begins at beginning and even earlier than. How 90% of serotonin is produced within the intestine, not the mind. What makes up the ecosystem of the intestine. We get fairly granular on this one.

The distinction between DNA and gene expression. How some meals might be good for some folks and never others, and find out how to know which is greatest for you, but in addition, the universally dangerous meals. Why there are some universality dangerous ones however not universally good ones. Why he doesn’t advocate harsh merchandise that kill micro organism within the mouth or within the intestine. The actual motive it’s essential to chew your meals rather well earlier than swallowing, and a lot extra. Lot’s of sensible information on this episode. Additionally, numerous hyperlinks to study extra within the present notes at wellnessmama.fm, so verify these out. However with out additional ado, let’s be a part of Naveen Jain. Naveen, welcome again.

Naveen: Nicely, Katie, so good to see you lastly after an extended, very long time.

Katie: I’m so excited we get to have a dialog and get to report it and share it at this time, and we’re gonna discuss quite a bit about intestine well being and even past intestine well being, how this impacts the well being of the entire physique. Earlier than we do, although, I might say you’re the one individual I do know in actual life who has a Moon rock assortment. And so, I might love so that you can simply speak about this as a result of I believe you’re my solely hobbyist Moon rock collector.

Naveen: Nicely, I believe, Katie, you realize, to me, the Moon is symbolic. It’s symbolic of what humanity is able to doing. So, to me, going to the Moon is a approach of expressing that there’s nothing that’s unattainable for us to do. Although it’s referred to as “Moonshots” that folks thought was troublesome, if not unattainable to do and having, you realize, now to have the ability to go to the Moon and to me, the gathering of house rocks really was simply merely a pastime of in a position to maintain one thing in your hand. Which may be even earlier than the beginning of our planet. And it offers you some concept of how fragile we’re that if we don’t maintain ourselves, our planet, we as humanity might not survive. As a species, we might not survive.

So, you realize, concept of when somebody says, “I’m actually fearful about our planet,” ask the planet and planet will let you know, “Don’t you are concerned about me as a result of we…” Planet will do exactly effective however human species might not survive. Similar to dinosaurs. And to me, having a Moon rock merely jogs my memory that all of us are linked collectively. When one thing outdoors us goes fallacious, we as inner ecosystem can even be impacted, proper. And that’s coming right down to, you realize, should you have a look at what’s above, so beneath is admittedly what’s outdoors the ecosystem and the universe impacts us, and our ecosystem inside us impacts the universe.

Katie: I really like that you just stated it like that as a result of I interviewed my oldest son on this podcast a pair hundred episodes in the past when he launched a cookbook and you realize him as properly. And I requested him that query. You understand, your technology’s gonna face quite a bit within the environmental and local weather stuff. And, I raised this query and he goes, “Nicely, mother, you’re really asking the fallacious query as a result of the…”

Naveen: Oh, I adore it, I adore it.

Katie: He stated, “The planet is a self-correcting organism. It’s gonna heal itself. It’s only a query of whether or not we get to remain right here when it does. And we must be asking how we might be extra synergistic inside an setting that’s larger than us.”

Naveen: That’s the good reply. That’s precisely how I might see it that…you realize, when folks say, “Aren’t you fearful concerning the planet?” I say, “That’s not the query try to be asking.” It’s, “Are we fearful concerning the human species?” That’s what we must be asking.

Katie: Which is an ideal segue as a result of that’s one thing that you’re intimately concerned with and I might say not fearful about however working to resolve. My listeners are fairly well being savvy and perceive or at the least have a passing understanding that intestine well being impacts the entire total physique. However I really feel like this idea is…properly, we’ve identified features of it for a very long time. We’re seeing a lot extra analysis about it proper now. And we’re…because of corporations like Viome, we now have many extra tangible instruments to really perceive and begin to do one thing about that. However to begin broad, type of give us an outline of what we imply by the well being of the intestine impacts the well being of the entire physique.

Naveen: So, properly, to start with, you realize, let’s simply begin from the start. We as human beings aren’t merely a product of the DNA from our mother and pop. What we’re is a symbiotic ecosystem, and in that ecosystem, 99% of all of the genes which are really expressed in our human physique aren’t our personal. They arrive from these microbes which are in our mouth, in our intestine, throughout us. So, think about…I imply, there’s actually…if we have a look at the human beings as such by way of all of the genes which are expressed that makes us who we’re, they aren’t people. They’re largely microbial. We’re dwelling of their world. They don’t stay in our world, proper.

So, after we perceive that, you realize, regardless that you possibly can argue that they’re the puppet masters and we’re merely the host or puppet for his or her profit, and you possibly can argue sometime that perhaps they really created us to unfold them round, perhaps they created us to allow them to rule the world, proper, however in all honesty, we coevolved collectively. In coevolution what occurs is we feed them and we give them a pleasant and heat and comfy place to remain. In flip, they feed us the vitamins that our physique wants to really be wholesome, proper. So, think about from the time a child is born, and I believe that is one thing that most individuals don’t notice, that within the first couple of days of mom’s breast milk is stuffed with oligosaccharides. And that can not be digested by the human physique. That’s there just for the microbes within the intestine to have the ability to convert into vitamins. Which means it’s to create the ecosystem inside us.

Now think about what nature is telling us, that we simply created a offspring and one of the simplest ways to maintain this offspring wholesome is to not feed it however to feed them who’re going to maintain the offspring wholesome. And because the child goes via the beginning canal, that is the primary publicity the child will get to the entire world of microbiome. It will get…utterly inhales the microbiome because the child’s going via beginning canal. And sadly, among the moms for apparent causes find yourself getting a C-section. They really…the infants aren’t going via the identical…they’re uncovered to pores and skin microbiome somewhat via the beginning canal, the microbiome that they’d get via the beginning canal. And that could be a essentially…the child, when it’s born, is definitely…the character has created in a approach that the microbes get launched into the child on the time of the beginning and that really now turns into a coevolution course of. And the mom’s breast milk begins to feed these microbes to create this ecosystem.

And because the intestine microbiome begins to get wholesome, it begins to coach our immune system. And I believe that is the elemental half that folks want to know. Seventy % of our immune system is alongside our intestine lining. In reality, all of the analysis reveals that how intestine microbiome is consistently coaching our immune system what’s a pal and what’s a foe, proper. So, in some sense, should you have a look at the human physique, there’s a tube that goes via us. There’s a high of the tube in your mouth after which there’s the underside of the tube, and you then begin to have a look at all alongside the strains there’s a huge quantity of microbial existence there. They usually actually are continuously interacting with our immune system and the immune system is now understanding when there may be really a pathogen that’s coming via the meals or the pathogen that’s coming via the surface world, find out how to react to it. And these microbes are the primary sign that tells the immune programs, “This isn’t good. Go do one thing about it, proper.”

And I believe to me, that symbiotic relationship breaks down when there’s a dysbiosis within the intestine. So, I believe as your son identified, not simply the planet however even the human physique is designed to heal itself. The human physique is designed to be in homeostasis. And any time…and whether or not we minimize our pores and skin or whether or not there may be some kind of pathogen or we get some kind of a illness, it usually is designed to heal itself if our physique is in stability. So, when there are intestine microbial actions and the human host are continuously in sync and wholesome and our immune system is wholesome, then our physique will really heal itself. When there’s a dysbiosis or imbalance of the intestine microbiome, that is the place the unease occurs. When your physique will not be comfortable, you get illness which we name illness.

Katie: Yeah, so many essential factors you simply stated to unpack. And I believe the primary being that we actually are extra bacterial than human and also you…right here you stated you’re what you eat nevertheless it goes to date past that. It’s not even you’re what you eat and even you’re what you eat-eat, however what your intestine micro organism eats and the way it grows. And I really like that you just introduced up the beginning canal factor as a result of I’m a doula and I’ve really helped in a number of C-section births with feeding the child, as a result of such as you stated, should you don’t…the child is of course meant to seed their intestine via the beginning canal. And if that doesn’t occur, such as you stated, they’re seeding to the hospital room, to pores and skin, to doubtlessly disinfectants which are in that room, all types of issues. And we all know that this intestine micro organism at beginning, an increasing number of we study, units you up to your entire life. But in addition, the excellent news is…and I do know that Viome does numerous analysis on this. All will not be misplaced should you don’t get an ideal begin. We now have the flexibility to type of get a snapshot and look within the intestine in a very distinctive approach after which optimize to enhance somebody’s well being going ahead.

And likewise, such as you stated, the physique’s pure state is well being. It’s not usually that we have to do something drastic. We have to get out of our personal approach and simply take away the issues which are maintaining the physique from being wholesome or perhaps typically give it little further vitamins to assist get there. Discuss a bit bit concerning the science of Viome and what we’re testing as a result of this know-how didn’t even exist a pair many years in the past, and now we now have such superb knowledge from this.

Naveen: Nicely, it’s very fascinating is this concept of, you realize…should you return and have a look at couple of many years in the past, it was really the micro organism and all these organisms have been thought-about as an enemy of the human physique. That’s the minute you see them, your job is to kill them as shortly as doable as a result of they’ll’t probably be there for our good, proper. And as we began to study extra concerning the human physique, we realized that almost all of those organisms are literally commensal. They’re presupposed to be there they usually actually…after we feed them issues like, you realize…in olden days, after we have been dwelling within the savannas of Africa, we’ll pull out a leaf or we’ll pull out the foundation and eat it. That’s stuffed with fiber. These fibers are literally what our intestine microbes eat, and people intestine microbes, by consuming these fibers, really flip them into quick chain fatty acids. Issues like butyric, issues like acetate, these have been all of the vitamins that our physique wanted.

In reality, should you begin to consider it, 90% of all of the serotonin is definitely produced in our intestine, not in our mind. So, should you actually take into consideration all of the issues which are being finished within the intestine and the way what occurs within the intestine doesn’t merely keep within the intestine, it really impacts the entire physique together with our mind to coming again to it, Katie, that you just identified. What occurs in our intestine impacts our temper. So, whether or not it’s a despair or nervousness or, you realize, you may name them any names you need, you realize, lots of this stuff together with autism is now linked immediately into the intestine microbiome. In reality, they’ve finished now the analysis the place they did merely a microbial transplant referred to as a fecal transplant they usually have been in a position to actually present that youngsters with autism, their autistic signs went down by 50% even after two years simply by merely doing the microbial transplant. They have been in a position to present whenever you took an individual that has a despair a microbial transplant or nervousness, it may be transferred just by transferring the microbiome into one other species. They usually’ve finished them in mice they usually’ve finished that actually in people, and clearly, it was finished by mistake however that’s really the way it occurred.

In reality, what’s actually fascinating is habit. They usually’ve proven the identical factor. They took…there have been 17 folks on the analysis that have been utterly hooked on alcohol. And people folks, they gave them a fecal transplant from individuals who really had no habit. And these folks’s habit went away. Now think about that, that our intestine microbiome are controlling our mind by way of what to do. That’s what the habit is, proper. And I believe that’s actually phenomenal.

And now what we’re studying is each kind of most cancers…actually what they’ve now checked out is each single stable tumor has microbes inside that tumor. Take into consideration {that a} second, the microbes are contained in the tumor. And what we discovered most fascinating was there may be microbial peptides being displayed on the floor of the tumor. Now, why would a tumor that’s an organism eager to survive would ever show a microbial peptide except it’s there to idiot our immune system into pondering that is self and protects the tumor towards the immune system attacking, proper?

Now, think about what…one other factor that’s most fascinating I discovered was whenever you do immunotherapy, it really works about one-third of the time. And the folks the place the immunotherapy doesn’t work, within the 70% of the folks that immunotherapy didn’t work, they merely have been in a position to do a change of their intestine microbiome and the identical immunotherapy began working. So, our intestine microbiome will not be solely there to maintain us wholesome from all of the illnesses at this time we name the totally different names. Coronary heart illnesses, it’s coming from our intestine microbes really producing issues like trimethylamine or TMA. TMA will get absorbed within the blood and our liver converts them into TMAO, trimethylamine oxide. In reality, we will now have a look at issues like LDL manufacturing which is a foul ldl cholesterol manufacturing and see how microbial actions and microbial metabolites really change the LDL manufacturing. You’re ready to have a look at how…what’s occurring in your intestine, how are we altering the inflammatory markers in our host. So, we’re in a position to measure the intestine exercise and the human host exercise, all their cytokines. So, we’re taking a look at each interleukins, we’re taking a look at the entire inflammatory markers to see how they’re altering with the intestine microbial exercise.

And so, anyway, the purpose I’m attempting to make is that you just talked about one thing about these micro organism, and I simply need folks to know the microorganisms aren’t simply micro organism. They’re predominantly micro organism however additionally they include yeast, viruses and even the RNA viruses or fungus or mould. All of this stuff are literally the entire ecosystem and the largest half actually should you seen virtually 10 to 1 if no more is definitely phages. And phages are the viruses that infect the micro organism. And should you have a look at any nature whether or not you’re wanting within the swamp otherwise you’re wanting on the intestine microbiome, actually there are 10 instances extra phages than the micro organism alone. And meaning these viruses that infect micro organism are modifying the bacterial…the organism, the features of those micro organism that actually adjustments how these micro organism behave by way of what features they’re performing.

So once more, what’s actually fascinating is by taking a look at what organisms are there, won’t ever let you know what’s going on in your physique. In reality, their features are what makes the distinction. Which means what they’re producing can…is admittedly the one factor that issues what these intestine microbes are producing, not who they’re. And I believe, Katie, you in all probability know that numerous the folks like Akkermansia muciniphila. A number of the corporations are promoting them as a probiotic with out realizing that Akkermansia might be good for some folks and actually it’s the primary motive for inflicting a number of sclerosis, and it has additionally been immediately linked to Alzheimer’s, proper. So now give it some thought. The identical organism can do one thing good for one individual and might do one thing actually dangerous in one other individual. So, taking one thing blindly, taking any complement, any probiotic, any prebiotic blindly is definitely not good for you as a result of your physique is totally totally different than different individual’s physique. The identical organism or identical probiotic might be good for somebody and may very well be dangerous for one more individual. And that’s the largest studying we now have had within the final six years.

Katie: Yeah, I really like that you just introduced up the fecal microbiota switch as properly. I’ve seen among the science on this and… you realize, caveat, this isn’t one thing to aim at house nevertheless it’s fairly superb what they’re conducting in labs with some actually focused and really particular methods of doing that. And I really feel like in a way, that is additionally one thing you may accomplish with out having to go to that excessive if you realize what you’re working with. And for the final two years, I’ve been saying, you realize, early on in well being and wellness, I might discover out info, learn research and be so excited and write about it, and I’ve realized an increasing number of during the last 15 years every little thing is so personalised and so individualized. And so now when folks ask me like, “What precisely did you do to reverse your Hashimoto’s?” I say, “You understand, I can let you know what I did nevertheless it’s not gonna work the identical for you. It may be an concept with the place to begin nevertheless it’s not gonna be your blueprint. Every of our blueprints is gonna be very, very totally different.”

Which is why I really like now an increasing number of entry to those at-home testing whether or not it’s issues like Viome, even now blood testing accessible at house, genetic testing simply so we will have extra info and entry. And I’ve stated so many instances on right here we’re every our personal major healthcare supplier. On the finish of the day, it’s nice to work with docs however we’re every our personal major healthcare supplier. And I really feel like having instruments in our pocket that allow us be simpler at that may actually, actually make a distinction. So, let’s discuss a bit bit extra concerning the personalization side of this as a result of I additionally am curious…you realize, I do know you stated every little thing is so totally different. What’s good for one individual may be not for one more. Are there any issues which are type of universally dangerous that you just’re discovering in Viome? Like, I might put perhaps processed vegetable oils on the don’t cross checklist, however I’m curious what you’re seeing within the knowledge.

Naveen: Yeah. So to start with, it’s actually fascinating. I believe you phrased it accurately. There isn’t any such factor as common wholesome meals. And meaning there is no such thing as a such factor that’s good for everybody. Which means the identical meals might be good for you or dangerous for somebody. Nonetheless, there are some common unhealthy issues which you can know. So, there is no such thing as a common wholesome factor however there are universally unhealthy issues. Sugar is a type of unhealthy issues. There isn’t any one who says, “The sugar is sweet for me, proper.” In order that’s really having a fried, you realize, fried meals. So, all fried stuff, it’s simply dangerous for everybody. Consuming numerous sugar, it’s simply dangerous for everybody. Nonetheless, what we discover most fascinating is that analyzing the human physique and analyzing primarily based on what’s going on and what’s dynamically altering in your physique…and I believe numerous the people who find themselves listening to it, I need folks to know the distinction between a DNA which is static. So when folks do their DNA take a look at, it tells you what’s inherently there in your physique. It doesn’t let you know what is definitely occurring in your physique. Which means…if, Katie, you permit me, I’m gonna clarify the DNA as a result of I believe to me lots of people get very confused about what DNA is.

So, each a part of our physique is equivalent DNA. Which means you have a look at my hair, you have a look at my eyes, you have a look at my enamel, you have a look at my nails, you have a look at my finger, it’s precisely the identical DNA. Then why is it we don’t have the eyes rising on my fingers and the nails rising on my head? Identical DNA. And the reply is there’s…when some genes are overexpressed, some genes are below expressed, the identical DNA can turn out to be eye, identical DNA can turn out to be nail, identical DNA can turn out to be pores and skin, identical DNA can turn out to be coronary heart cells or neurons or issues like that, proper. So, level is DNA is like an alphabet and the story you’re writing is definitely what’s being expressed. It’s referred to as RNA. So, RNA tells you the story that’s being written for you proper now and DNA tells you each doable factor that may occur. And that’s one factor.

So, what we do at Viome, Katie, is we have a look at your gene expression and what gene expression tells us is what story your intestine microbes are writing. What story your human host is writing. And now I’m gonna come again and let you know…some information to share with you in direction of the top. As soon as we perceive all that’s occurring, we’re in a position to then let you know, “Hey, don’t eat broccoli or cabbage as a result of your sulfide manufacturing in your intestine is simply too excessive and the sulfide want sulfates to provide sulfide and the broccoli and cabbage are very excessive in sulfate so you need to minimize it down, proper.”

We are able to let you know that…lots of people will let you know go take vitamin B3. However vitamin B3’s really not good for you when you might have excessive uric acid manufacturing. So don’t take vitamin B3 you probably have excessive uric acid manufacturing. Equally, everybody will let you know, “Hey, take curcumin and turmeric. It’s actually good anti-inflammatory.” It’s. Nonetheless, when your bile acid manufacturing could be very excessive, you don’t need to take curcumin as a result of it’s going to transform into bile salt that’s gonna trigger extra irritation. Lots of people suppose by some means taking NAD or NR, and NMN which is precursor to NAD is definitely improve your longevity. It’s true for some folks it might do this, however for others it really will hurt you when you might have excessive mobile senescence, or when you might have excessive inflammatory exercise. You don’t need to be taking extra NAD as a result of that’s gonna improve the mitochondrial biogenesis that’s going to extend extra free radicals, gonna improve excessive mobile senescence, proper.

So, the thought actually is that you need to study what is occurring earlier than you deal with your physique like a black field. And I believe you’ve stated it proper, that we’re simply…we’re the CEO of our personal well being. We’re those who have to know what is occurring in our physique as a result of our major care physician…I don’t learn about you, Katie. Once I go to my major care physician, by the point I begin talking, he’s already writing the prescription. I imply, actually, the phrase he says… “Oh, did you say coughing? Right here it’s. Did you say this? Give me the ailing, I’ll provide the capsule.” And that’s all they’re merely doing. They don’t have to…they don’t care to know what’s inflicting that to occur in my physique. Like, you had Hashimoto, or should you had any kind of an autoimmune illness, the very first thing they let you know is simply take the immune suppression medicine and suppress the symptom. Not fear about what’s inflicting it, and that could be a elementary downside that our healthcare system has is that our medical industrial complicated, everybody makes cash after we are sick and nobody makes cash after we are wholesome. And so, we determined to vary that. In my world of the longer term, Katie, we consider that…I believe identical to you simply stated, the way forward for healthcare goes to be delivered at house, not on the hospitals.

And the medicines of the longer term are gonna come from a farm, not a pharmacy. And that’s going to be the largest change you’ll begin to see us taking management of our personal well being. And I believe COVID has been one of many…I might say should you look again at COVID 10 years from now, it will likely be the largest inflection level that occurred in humanity’s notion of that we as people have management our personal actions and our actions have well being penalties.

Katie: Completely. I believe so many good silver linings and educating moments in COVID and folks spent extra time at house and with their households cooking dinner at house. There have been numerous nice outcomes, as laborious because it was for many individuals. I believe we will give attention to these positives. And I really like your clarification of DNA and the way it goes past simply your genetics. It’s about how they’re expressed and the way that’s managed within the intestine. And I’d like to go a bit bit deeper about Viome as a result of I do know I talked to you years in the past about this and also you guys have made some massive advances since then. So, speak about type of the snapshot of what Viome is testing after which how persons are making adjustments primarily based on that and what they’re seeing.

Naveen: Sure. So clearly, Katie, a few years in the past we did a intestine intelligence chart that merely measured your intestine well being. After which we realized that that was actually good nevertheless it didn’t inform us how these intestine adjustments have been impacting us and the human physique. And so, we now launched…about two years in the past throughout COVID really, we launched our well being intelligence take a look at that measures your blood and it measures your stool, and by doing the finger prick blood, so that you don’t must go to a lab. It’s a easy finger prick blood, couple of drops of your blood. And your starch of your stool. We’re in a position to now have a look at each your intestine well being and your human host and in a position to now let you know what’s your organic age. And that tells you not solely, you realize, how properly or how poorly your physique is getting old in comparison with your chronological age.

So, to present you an concept, I’m now gonna be 63 in September and my organic age is right down to 50. And that tells you that actually that my physique is performing on the stage once I was 50. And I really feel it. I run up the steps two stairs at a time and I’ve extra vitality than actually I had once I was 50. And that merely tells you what your organic age is. Then we offer you immune well being. Which means how properly are you protected towards should you have been to catch flu or chilly or any kind of pathogen, how properly your physique is ready to shield itself? And that’s your immune well being. Your mobile well being. That tells you the way properly your cells are in a position to bear the issues which are occurring within the human physique. Mitochondrial well being, that’s your vitality manufacturing facility. How properly the mitochondrial well being is performing as a result of if it’s not, you get mind fog, you are feeling fatigued, you are feeling drained. We offer you clearly your intestine well being.

And now that is one thing new that we’re gonna be launching in June and we’re launching a brand new product referred to as full physique intelligence. And for the primary time, we’re gonna be analyzing all the way in which from high of your tube, your saliva, your stool and blood, all three on the identical time. And by taking a look at that, we’re additionally gonna be capable of present you some extra insights corresponding to your coronary heart and metabolic well being. We’re gonna be providing you with your mind and cognitive well being. We’re gonna be capable of present you your oral well being corresponding to your gum well being, your enamel well being and all of the gum, you realize…leaky gum as an alternative of simply leaky intestine. We’ll be capable of present you the way properly your boundaries of your gums are performing in order that microbes aren’t going into your blood.

And different factor we do now which we didn’t do till a few 12 months in the past is whenever you do a take a look at, not solely you get your deep perception what’s occurring in your physique and never simply let you know listed below are the meals which are good for you and right here is why. Listed below are the meals you need to keep away from and why. We used to let you know listed below are the dietary supplements you need to take. Now we transcend that, Katie. We’re in a position to let you know you solely want 22 milligram of berberine day-after-day. You want 17 milligram of elderberry day-after-day. You want 79 milligram amylase day-after-day. And we undergo each vitamin, minerals, herbs, meals extracts, digestive enzymes, amino acids, probiotics, prebiotics, and we actually make these for you on demand.

There isn’t any premade stuff. Consider it like a compounding pharmacy. There are robotics compounding pharmacy. It says, these capsules are being made for Katie. Go to bin quantity 17, get 17 milligram of elderberry. Go to bin quantity 29, get 27 milligram of berberine. And we actually take all of the strawberry extract right here, put this factor right here. And by the way in which, as soon as we get the powder, we make the capsules and ship them off to you each month. And as your physique adjustments, we alter your dietary supplements on the identical time. So, each time you retest, we are saying, “Oh, you don’t want amylase anymore. What you actually need is butyrate now,” proper. And we actually are in a position to alter your…as your physique is altering, we adapt the vitamin that your physique wants. And people are the brand new issues that I’m tremendous enthusiastic about.

Different issues that I’m actually, actually enthusiastic about…and we now have not talked to anybody but about it. We’re gonna be launching in June additionally our most cancers detect. And that is gonna…first time as a client you’ll be capable of spit in a tube and with 95% specificity and 90% sensitivity, we’ll be capable of let you know you probably have any oral most cancers or throat most cancers. After which we’ll be capable of really join you with a health care provider to have the ability to do one thing about it. So, if you’re above…over 50 years previous or have any historical past of smoking, vaping, chewing tobacco, you’ll be capable of really at house do a take a look at and really know that you just’re not at a threat of growing a most cancers proper now. Otherwise you’re growing a most cancers proper now.

Katie: Yeah. That is so leading edge and I believe simply to focus on what you stated, that is actually fascinating information of mainly machine studying and AI and this adaptive know-how. And since you’ve now examined 1000’s and 1000’s, in all probability a whole lot of 1000’s of individuals, then the algorithm has entry to all this info so it will probably proceed to get an increasing number of specialised and direct with the suggestions and study your individual physique over time. So, you’re getting this sort of ongoing, correct image which I believe is so fascinating.

Naveen: Yeah. So, Katie, we now have analyzed over 350,000 samples already. And that has given us this…you realize, the a part of being the…a part of that Viome ecosystem is each single one who joins profit from the opposite 350,000 samples that we now have analyzed they usually contribute to the ecosystem, and our AI and machine studying is consistently getting higher. And for each single one who joins profit themselves and advantages the humanity on the identical time as a result of now the extra we study, the higher suggestions we will make for everybody. So, earlier than we simply solely may have a look at your stool. Now we have a look at stool plus blood. Now it’s stool plus blood plus saliva. And we’re gonna launch…the subsequent factor might be with urine. After which we’re gonna begin to have a look at different biomarkers in your physique. So, our suggestions get an increasing number of exact as we study an increasing number of concerning the human physique. And our actual hope is, you realize, in my lifetime we’ll be capable of perceive what causes the onset of a power illness and what causes them to progress and to have the ability to forestall them from occurring within the first place, to diagnose them early after they really do occur, and to give you a treatment for these illnesses. Not merely handle them however to treatment them as soon as for all for every particular person. And that’s going to be the final word purpose of our life.

Katie: And I really like that you just introduced up the interplay of all of the totally different microbiomes inside the physique as properly and the way you’re taking a look at all of those, as a result of a few of my early analysis was in oral well being and studying as an example that strep mutants and the micro organism that trigger gingivitis don’t each exist on the identical time. And it’s because we now have an oral microbiome. And if it will get out of stability in a single path or the opposite, you’re gonna find yourself with these issues. However the reply will not be sterilizing your mouth and killing all micro organism identical to we wouldn’t need to within the intestine. It’s getting a wholesome oral microbiome that has that ecosystem that it wants. Identical factor with the intestine. And such as you stated, you’re taking a look at these all through the entire physique. I do know your daughter’s additionally performing some fascinating analysis with the vaginal microbiome and I’m excited to speak together with her about that.

However I believe, like we talked about at first, since our physique is extra bacterial than human, the extra we perceive about these interactions, the extra type of intricate knowledge we will get to make enhancements over time and naturally there could be a most cancers connection right here. You understand, I’ve heard it stated that most cancers is a metabolic illness in some half. And this can be a approach of…as a result of even inside a person, should you’re taking a look at a metabolic illness, you’re taking a look at, “Okay, we have to get blood sugar in verify. We have to get blood strain in verify. We have to get weight problems measures in verify.” However the way in which to try this’s gonna be totally different for each single individual.

Naveen: I believe it’s a metabolic and inflammatory illness. So, I imply, it’s induced…power irritation is a root reason behind power illnesses. Nonetheless, what causes the irritation in our physique is totally different for every particular person. So regardless that it’s the irritation that could be on the root trigger however the underlying causes for that irritation are very, very totally different. And as you talked about, our daughter is, you realize…has this firm referred to as Evvy, E-V-V-Y, which appears on the vaginal microbiome. And to me, what she’s doing is so phenomenal and particularly your viewers, each single lady ought to do this as a result of that’s actually…goes to be…you realize, numerous girls undergo via lots of the illnesses that we as males would by no means perceive. And that to some extent is, you realize, largely reproductive organ and lots of the instances the later analysis reveals that vaginal microbiome is concerned in preterm beginning, within the well being of the child and all of the issues that you just talked about because the child goes via the beginning canal. All of the issues that come out actually are contributory from the vaginal microbiome. So, my excessive advice…once more, I’m biased. I believe each lady must be doing the Evvy take a look at, proper.

Now, coming again to the stuff you talked about that, you realize, human well being is complicated however as soon as we perceive biochemical stage what’s going on, that’s the rationale as an alternative of taking a look at organisms and as an alternative of taking a look at DNA, we targeted on the gene expression or RNA. We targeted on what microbes are producing. Wanting on the entire physique. And I believe, Katie, I wanna level out that the merchandise that you just construct for oral well being are among the greatest merchandise as a result of, to me, what’s the greatest gamechanger is folks thought the organisms have been your enemy. So, they’ve this Listerine. Kills 99% of all of the micro organism in your mouth. For heaven’s sake, don’t do this. Once you kill the ecosystem in your mouth, it really destroys the entire digestive tract. And I wanna simply emphasize, you realize, to folks when our moms advised us to chew our meals, she didn’t ask us to chew the meals as a result of they thought the meals was too massive to go down our esophagus, proper. It was really was whenever you chew your meals, you’re permitting the oral microbiome in your saliva to really predigest the meals, and by predigesting the meals…along with predigesting, it additionally sends the sign to the intestine and to the physique about what’s coming down. So, when it tastes candy, it begins to launch the sign for pancreas to launch the insulin, as a result of it is aware of the candy stuff is coming down.

So, the principle factor is that we have to permit the oral microbiome to predigest the feed so your small gut can now take in the vitamins which are already predigested. So, if you find yourself…so two issues you must take into consideration right here. And one is if you find yourself confused and you’re consuming your meals, it doesn’t get correctly digested and right here is why. If you find yourself confused, you’re in a combat or flight response. And the primary factor that occurs whenever you’re in combat or flight response is your digestive system shuts down. Bear in mind why it was designed. Once you’re working away from a tiger, at the moment, the physique knew there is no such thing as a level worrying about digesting your meals as a result of both you’re gonna be lunch for another person otherwise you’re going to outlive. And should you grew to become lunch for another person, it didn’t matter. And should you survive, guess what? The stress went down and also you moved from sympathetic mode to parasympathetic mode and you possibly can digest your meals.

Once you come from work and you’re confused, what can we inform folks? Earlier than you eat, do the gratitude. Why is that? It’s since you need to carry your physique from sympathetic mode into parasympathetic mode. Eliminate combat or flight response. By taking the deep breath, by doing the gratitude, what you’re doing is definitely permitting your physique to have the ability to be able to digest the meals. Then whenever you chew your meals, you’re permitting your saliva and oral microbiome to really predigest your meals. And these are easy strategies we realized within the historic tradition however we now know scientifically why did they are saying that, proper. We inform…like, Katie, you could not know that my mother and pop and our faith, they don’t eat after sundown. And I at all times surprise why would that be. And it seems as a result of you must have three or 4 hours of break after you eat meals earlier than you fall asleep. So, they made that as a faith don’t eat after sundown so as a result of folks will get three, 4 hours of digestion. So, actually telling that, you realize…and that to me was actually the factor that we realized as a part of our tradition. Really, seems we’re very scientific.

And I wanna come again to the oral merchandise. I believe folks must be actually desirous about oral microbiome well being and utilizing the precise oral toothpaste, oral issues that…you realize, probiotics. And the merchandise, among the merchandise that you’ve, Katie, are designed to boost your oral well being and oral microbial actions or oral microbial ecosystem in your mouth. And I believe everybody who’s listening to it to begin listen as a result of that’s the primary. Your mouth really is the start of your digestive tract. It’s not merely a gap to your digestive tract. It’s the path of the digestive tract the place the digestion occurs.

Katie: I completely agree. I believe very multifaceted however begin with the mouth is so essential. And I really like a few the stuff you simply talked about about why we don’t digest meals if we’re confused and we all know, in fact, that Individuals stay in a power state of stress usually. And one factor I’ve turn out to be keen on…you realize, there’s a motive many cultures additionally pray or meditate proper earlier than consuming, which additionally helps the physique get into parasympathetic or you may merely do respiration workouts. Do some field respiration to calm your nervous system. I really like that your loved ones naturally from a non secular perspective stopped consuming at sundown. I’ve realized in my very own life that I do nice once I time restricted eat and for a very long time I might wait and never eat until midday after which eat later within the day. And I seen once I shifted that to consuming and stopping by sundown, I really feel so significantly better and it goes to that time you talked about about letting your physique end digesting earlier than you sleep in order that whenever you’re sleeping, you might be therapeutic and your physique can get into autophagy and you may allocate sources to all of the pure processes the physique has in-built to maintain us wholesome.

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And I additionally wanna piggyback on what you stated about the identical motive we don’t wanna kill our oral microbiome is similar motive we don’t wanna kill our intestine micro organism as properly however I nonetheless see folks type of hopping on the bandwagon of those actually harsh cleanses or in fact folks typically take antibiotics for causes whether or not they should or not. And people can each have a fairly harsh influence on the intestine. And so, I’d love to speak about it. Perhaps if somebody is aware of they’ve been on antibiotics earlier than or they know they’ve a intestine problem associated to essentially type of killing a few of these good micro organism. Clearly, Viome helps with this however type of, like, what might be finished? How can we assist repair it?

Naveen: So, very first thing is, you realize, earlier than you go begin taking numerous issues is to know, what’s the state of your intestine micro organism? So do a Viome take a look at, perceive the place it stands. And you then begin to have a look at what you…you realize, we let you know what are the meals you need to eat. And once more, taking numerous the fermented meals particularly whenever you’re attempting to repopulate or rebootilate your intestine microbiome, actually the issues must be diversification. So as an alternative of simply taking one kind of probiotics, try to be taking kombucha, the kimchi, the…you realize, all of the fermented meals you may probably get your fingers on. So, whether or not it’s a yogurt or, you realize, at the least oat milk yogurt should you can. I imply, I’m a giant fan that I believe dairy…actually for lots of the folks, dairy is the massive downside. Now I’m not saying it’s for everybody however numerous the folks, dairy may very well be a giant downside. And the mammalian merchandise really may very well be a giant downside for some folks and never for others.

So, I’m not the one that is preaching veganism right here in any respect. What I’m saying is know what is sweet for you. There are lots of people who can eat purple meat for all of their life and stay to be 100, and the rationale for that’s purple meat accommodates clearly as you all know, choline and carnitine that may get transformed by our intestine microbiome into issues like TMA. And I discussed TMA is the one which will get absorbed within the blood, causes the TMAO which causes the center illness. So, it’s not the purple meat that causes the center illness. It’s the byproduct of how the purple meat is digested in some folks that produce TMA. So, in case your TMA manufacturing is low, you need to eat purple meat if you wish to as a result of it’s not gonna hurt you. And that’s actually the purpose is to know, don’t merely ban meals and entire class of meals.

One other factor that we realized…we printed a paper having analyzed over 100,000 folks at the moment on getting old. And what we discovered, Katie, that you could be discover actually fascinating is individuals who have been on these fad diets like, you realize, keto weight-reduction plan or paleo weight-reduction plan have been the worst offender of their organic age. The individuals who have been on keto weight-reduction plan actually have been three to 5 years older than their chronological age and the identical is true for paleo weight-reduction plan. It seems that people who find themselves on balanced weight-reduction plan, meaning they have been consuming their carbs however not quite a bit however they have been consuming their regular carbs, they have been consuming their protein, they have been consuming their fats they usually have been consuming the protein, they have been rather more balanced, have been really higher off biologically than reducing out the entire nutrient group utterly.

Katie: That is smart, that we want the variability. And I’ve realized an increasing number of as properly that I believe the simplistic model all of us realized, hopefully realized at school was about simply type of energy in, energy out. And I’ve heard it stated, you realize, our physique’s not a checking account. It’s a chemistry lab. And so, I now attempt to eat for maximal micronutrient and nutrient density in meals, not simply hitting or not hitting goal calorie ratios as a result of it’s a lot extra various and essential than that.

And what’s subsequent for Viome? I’m curious as a result of I do know you’re continuously doing analysis right here, and such as you stated, your purpose is to deal with power illness in its entirety. So, what’s within the pipeline for you guys?

Naveen: Really, I discussed that subsequent take a look at we’re launching in June is a full physique intelligence. We’re launching a most cancers detect take a look at. And we’re making our dietary supplements and probiotics an increasing number of exact for each particular person since we make it for every particular person. We’re, you realize, attempting to do extra assessments now and our purpose is to launch within the subsequent six months one other take a look at which is gonna be extra, like, a proteomics take a look at as a result of the issues we can not see within the blood as a result of they’re produced some place else. So, can we measure issues, you realize, the proteins for a Hashimoto illness? Can we measure issues like lipopolysaccharide binding protein that may predict you probably have a leaky intestine by taking a look at LBP, by taking a look at CRP which really is finished within the liver? So, we’re going to have the ability to really measure extra issues along with simply those that we’re measuring, and the extra info we will study, the higher suggestions we make. So, our hope is to proceed to launch these assessments that give us higher and higher insights and meaning we will make an increasing number of exact advice for every particular person.

Final purpose actually is to know…as you say, the human physique is a chemistry lab. We’ve got mainly biochemical reactors in our physique. Your physique is a biochemical reactor. And that’s the factor folks want to know that the gene expression tells you what biochemistry is occurring within the physique. And that’s a motive…and actually, Viome is the one firm that does have a look at the gene expression as a result of there is no such thing as a different firm that has this know-how. And I believe individuals who have listened to your earlier podcast, we talked about, this explicit know-how got here out of Los Alamos Nationwide Lab the place they’d the laboratory for biodefense challenge. And that’s the rationale nobody else can do it as a result of it took 10 years and multibillion {dollars}’ price of sources to develop this know-how. Sadly, we have been very lucky to have the ability to get the license to have the ability to use this know-how to assist the humanity get higher. And if our mission was merely to generate profits, we might not have been in a position to license this know-how, proper.

So, the actual fact at this time we’re merely targeted on making each single individual be higher. You understand, our mission on day one was what if we may perceive the human biology at a molecular stage so we will forestall, diagnose early and treatment these power illnesses together with most cancers and getting old? And I believe numerous the individuals who have heard you and I discuss previously, you realize that I misplaced my dad to most cancers and that was one of many greatest motivator for me as a result of if I had began this firm half a decade earlier than I did, I may have doubtlessly saved my dad. And, you realize, having watched him undergo that ache or struggling via most cancers I spotted that regardless that I couldn’t save him, I may dedicate my life to saving everybody else. And that might be my approach of letting him know that, you realize, I’m so pleased with what he…how he raised us as a baby and giving us every little thing we now have so we’re in a position to save everybody else’s family members whether or not it’s from coronary heart illness or diabetes or despair, nervousness or most cancers.

And my hope actually is that in our lifetime we are going to completely eradicate most cancers from the human physique. And if I have been to make a prediction at this time, I’ll let you know inside a decade I believe we are going to eliminate most cancers from the human physique.

Katie: That’s a giant declare and I hope we’re on monitor for that as properly. I’ve misplaced two prolonged members of the family within the final couple of months alone to most cancers in addition to a few of my grandparents. And it’s no secret that these are all nonetheless very a lot on the rise proper now and I’m certain the power stress of the final couple of years will not be serving to that downside. So, I’m grateful that there are sources such as you, and I’ve finished Viome. I’m doing an up to date one proper now so I can report again with my outcomes on that. However I additionally am gonna ensure that…I do know you’ve supplied a reduction code for the Viome testing. In order that hyperlink might be within the present notes for you guys listening at wellnessmama.fm. Yow will discover the low cost code and the hyperlink on to it there. And to verify I respect your time, there’s a pair final questions I might like to ask you. The primary being if there’s a e book or numerous books which have profoundly influenced your life. And if that’s the case, what they’re and why?

Naveen: Yeah, so the e book that basically influenced me…there’s a e book by Clayton Christensen, you realize. I really like the person and I noticed him earlier than he died. The e book he wrote, “How Will You Measure Your Life?” And to me it was such a profound e book which tells you that you need to be 100% sincere. You can’t be 99% sincere as a result of as soon as you’re taking a step down of this honesty, it’s a slippery slope and there’s no stopping it. When you make an exception to one thing, there’s simply no going again however there’ll at all times be another excuse to make an exception. And so, you need to focus your self to by no means, ever compromise in your rules that you just stand for. And that was simply completely a fabulous e book I learn.

You understand, the e book that additionally…I imply, clearly I wrote a e book referred to as “Moonshots” that’s actually about making a mindset of abundance somewhat than a mindset of shortage. And the elemental perception that I’ve is that there’s nothing that people aren’t able to doing if we really get our mindset to consider we will. So, any time when somebody says, “I can or I can’t,” it’s true as a result of it’s as much as them to determine whether or not they can or they’ll’t. That when you consider one thing is unattainable, it turns into unattainable for you and nobody else. And so, you’re utterly in management. The one factor you may’t do is what you may’t think about. All the things else is feasible.

Katie: I really like that. I do know you and I each increase our youngsters with that mindset and yours are older and doing superb issues out on the earth already and mine are at first levels of that. And lastly, what parting recommendation would you want to depart with the viewers at this time? Could possibly be associated to one thing we’ve talked about or fully unrelated.

Naveen: I might say dream so massive that folks suppose you’re loopy. Which means by no means let somebody let you know which you can’t do it. Fall in love with your self as a result of the day you fall in love with your self is the day the world will fall in love with you. Loving your self will not be about being self-conceited. Loving your self is about not searching for another person’s approval to do the issues that imply quite a bit to you. Observe your coronary heart, observe your intestine, hearken to your intestine and observe what it tells you. Discover a objective in life. When you discover a objective in life, you’ll by no means ever suppose it’s work. I stand up day-after-day at 4 a.m., and that’s my recommendation to everybody. Everytime you stand up within the morning, should you’re not leaping out of the mattress, you need to give up what you’re doing as a result of that’s not your calling, as a result of whenever you discover your calling, you’ll not be mendacity down within the mattress. You soar out of the mattress with pleasure wanting to resolve that downside.

And, Katie, I simply need to reiterate, I met your youngsters and I do know I bear in mind the oldest one and I gave him the Moon rock at the moment. I’m telling you your youngsters are going to really transfer this humanity ahead. You’re elevating these youngsters with the mindset that every little thing they need to do, they’ll. And each mom who’s listening to it simply ought to know that parenting is definitely very counterintuitive. And, Katie, you and I’ve talked about it numerous instances. Like, after we increase our kids, we inform them, “Our love for you is unconditional however our approval will not be.” And what meaning is solely is that we’ll at all times love you, we’ll at all times be there for you, however I’m not gonna let you know I’m pleased with you except you do issues that make us pleased with you. And that’s actually the factor about telling the kids that their success won’t ever be measured by how a lot cash they’ve within the financial institution. It is going to be measured by what number of lives they enhance. And the humility is an indication of success as a result of should you nonetheless have iota of vanity left in you, meaning you’re nonetheless attempting to show one thing to your self or another person. And humility tells you not have to try this, proper. And that could be a true signal of success. And all I can say is I’m so pleased with each considered one of your youngsters, Katie. And I can not await them to develop up and really do issues that can make our kids’s and grandchildren’s life higher.

Katie: Oh, thanks a lot for saying that. Individuals who don’t know, you and I first met and actually bonded over really parenting earlier than we ever talked about well being. And we share that similarity. I inform my youngsters day-after-day, “I really like you unconditionally and there’s nothing you ever must do to earn my love and there’s nothing you possibly can ever do that might take away from my love.” However you’re proper. Additionally, I need that, like, their pleasure to return from within, like…and I inform them usually, “You should really feel actually pleased with how laborious you labored and it’s essential to…” As a result of I need them to have that inside them and that self-love.

And this is the reason I’m so grateful each single day that I get to speak to our viewers that’s listening at this time of mothers, as a result of I believe mothers have such a tremendous distinctive means to essentially shift the way forward for humanity by how we mum or dad our youngsters and by serving to kind these future leaders. And for individuals who aren’t already aware of you, I might encourage you to hearken to our previous interview since you inform extra of your story in that one and also you very a lot stroll the stroll of this, of getting constructed all these superb issues after which now serving to your youngsters on their life journeys and your spouse in her personal proper is unimaginable as properly. So very grateful to your entire household and for all that each one of you’re doing on the earth and to your time at this time. I understand how busy you’re and I’m so grateful you took the time to be right here.

Naveen: Oh, Katie, it’s at all times an honor and a pleasure to be talking with you, and I’m wanting ahead to our subsequent dialog.

Katie: And thanks, as at all times, to all of you for listening and sharing your most respected sources, your time, your vitality, and your consideration with us at this time. We’re each so grateful that you just did. And I hope that you’ll be a part of me once more on the subsequent episode of the “Wellness Mama” podcast.

When you’re having fun with these interviews, would you please take two minutes to depart a score or assessment on iTunes for me? Doing this helps extra folks to seek out the podcast, which suggests much more mothers and households may benefit from the knowledge. I actually admire your time, and thanks as at all times for listening.

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